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20th Sep 2019 Login  
Anybody know anything about the new Feed in tariffs?
by CL at 2009-07-20 19:40:02 (Forum::Public::Wind)
I've heard that generators installed before 1st July 2009 won't qualify
I've heard that generators installed before 1st July 2009 won't qualify, anyone have any more info, firm what I have seen these new Feed in tariffs could be worth about 25-30p per unit
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CJL

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Anybody know anything about the new Feed in tariffs? CL - 2009-07-20 19:40:02
Re: Anybody know anything about the new Feed in tariffs? Ted Marynicz - 2009-07-20 22:29:29
DECCs plans are in public consultation until October and are therefore subject to change.

The current proposals are that all existing ROC registered systems up to 50kW will be automatically transferred to the FITs scheme when it comes in next year. They will get 9p per unit on total generated plus an unknown amount for exports.

Anyone who had a working generator that was not registered for ROCs as at 15th July 2009 (date consultation published) will be excluded from the FITs scheme. Suppliers may, or may not, put something in place to pay for exports.

Only new installs from 15th July onwards will qualify for the full FITs rate but will be subject to a six month reduction on the maximum 20 year guaranteed tariff period if they are commissioned prior to next April. Wind turbines between 1.5kW and 15kW will get 23p per unit generated plus an unknown amount for exports.

Any new system will only qualify for FITs if it is MCS accredited (both product and installer).

As I say this is just a proposal at the moment and it may all change as a result of feedback once the consultation period is over.

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ted

Re: Anybody know anything about the new Feed in tariffs? CL - 2009-07-21 10:02:00
Thanks Ted, who gets to have a say in the consultation, seems a bit unfair that people putting up a turbine now will get over double what we are getting for total generation
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CJL
Re: Anybody know anything about the new Feed in tariffs? Ted Marynicz - 2009-07-21 10:33:11

It's a public consultation so anyone can respond.

Details are here http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/consultations/elec_financial/elec_financial.aspx

How to respond is covered in the first section of the consultation document - which is the first pdf link at the bottom of the page.

ted

Re: Anybody know anything about the new Feed in tariffs? Tony Smith - 2009-07-24 20:05:25
I note that the consultation suggests that they are proposing to extend these benefits to installations of up to 5MW. I really struggle to see the justification for that. Industrial-scale wind is already eye-wateringly profitable and I don't see anyone round here holding back from trying to fit a windfarm anywhere that looks remotely suitable. Every farmer seems to be queuing up to get in on the act, and it seems to me that lack of suitable sites is the limiting factor rather than profitability.
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aesmith
Re: Anybody know anything about the new Feed in tariffs? Ted Marynicz - 2009-07-24 20:41:19
I agree that sub-5MW is a strange definition for microgeneration. But it is drawn in the context of 1000MW power stations. Also most commercial wind-farms would break that limit easily with each turbine being 2 or 3MW - note that the whole wind-farm would be assessed against that limit not each individual turbine.

Putting up one-off 1 or 2 MW turbines is exactly what this legislation is designed to encourage.

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ted

Re: Anybody know anything about the new Feed in tariffs? Tony Smith - 2009-07-25 10:09:45
"Putting up one-off 1 or 2 MW turbines is exactly what this legislation is designed to encourage."

I question if any more encouragement is needed judging by the flood of applications for exactly that sort of thing.

One local enterprise wants to put up a single 800KW machine, and quotes an expected return of £50K/year for the first 10 years, then 150K/year for the remainder of the project's life. That's clear cash profit after all costs and finance are paid, and after paying rental to the land owner.

I can't believe that people are reluctant to develop because they find that level of profitability unattractive. There's certainly no sign of it.

As an example there's a dispute currently between two farmers, each of whom want to put up a wind turbine, where the airport will only permit one to go ahead. One landowner's going to cash-in massively, and the other won't.

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aesmith

Re: Anybody know anything about the new Feed in tariffs? Tony Smith - 2009-07-26 18:09:18
I'm thinking a lot about wind power and profit currently, and the more I think the more it becomes apparent that an excessive profit margin is counter productive to common-sense development.

For example we have two proposals near to us, which probably cannot both go ahead. One is for a commercial 2.3MW turbine. The other is for an 800KW turbine, which will fund a Community development program to the tune of £50K / year.

Which should go ahead? An energy point of view would suggest the 2.3MW commercial one. But from a neighbourhood point of view, which would you rather have in your backyard, a big turbine generating profit for one family who don't even live nearby, or a smaller one generating benefit for the whole community?

To confuse the issue further, the Community proposal has the best site. If these things were centrally planned, then we'd probably have a 2.3MW on that site generating max energy, and maximising local benefits as well.

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aesmith

Re: Anybody know anything about the new Feed in tariffs? Peter - 2009-08-12 08:54:12
I assume the justification for existing registered small generators receiving a reduced payment is that the Feed-In tariff is also intended to replace any one-off installation grant, from which we should have already benefited?

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Peter

Re: Anybody know anything about the new Feed in tariffs? Ted Marynicz - 2009-08-12 21:39:26
That's indeed the thinking - but with the small transitional loophole that if you can a grant on a new system between now and next April then you will get to keep the grant AND get the higher FIT tariff. (Except for non-domestic users with > 50kW systems who have to return any centrally funded grant if they opt for FITs.)
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ted
Re: Anybody know anything about the new Feed in tariffs? Peter - 2009-08-15 09:35:25
Copied below is the response I received from 'Feed-In Tariffs Ltd' to my question to them on whether the proposed new FIT regime will require me to move from my current arrangement with edf.

-----------------------------------------

Yes you will have to move across to the tariffs at a fixed rate of 9p/kWh plus a bonus for any power you export.

For that bonus, you have a one-off choice of accepting a fixed price set by the government (probably 5p) or negotiating a price on the market. Though your present EDF price looks better, you will have to decide whether they will keep it at that level.

Is it better? The government says they have set the 9p level to ensure generators are no worse off (at the double ROC level), and it looks to us as though they got that about right. It's certainly better than you've been getting up to now at 1 ROC; looking forward it all depends on what happens to ROC prices in the future (and what Tradelink would be paying you). Probably not worth worrying about - you've got no choice!

Regards,

Feed In Tariffs Ltd


--------------------------------------------

Peter

Re: Anybody know anything about the new Feed in tariffs? Ted Marynicz - 2009-08-15 15:06:01
That's right. Anyone with an existing system < 50kW is given no choice but to move from ROCs to FITs at a fixed 9p/kWh on total generation plus whatever you can get for export.

Existing systems > 50kW will stay in ROCs.

Owners of new systems > 50kW will have a one-off choice to go with FITs or ROCs. No flipping from one to the other is allowed.

Systems > 5MW all register under ROCs.

At least those are the current proposals - they could be changed before implementation next April.

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ted

Re: Anybody know anything about the new Feed in tariffs? David Hobbs - 2009-11-23 14:09:13
Perhaps it's worth considering "de-commissioning" an existing system and de-registering it with Ofgem and then commission a "new" generator in a few months time in order to claim payment sunder the new scheme. In my own case (Proven6) this would benefit me to the tune of £23,200 over 20 years assuming payments of 23.5p as against 9p. -- dch_control
Re: Anybody know anything about the new Feed in tariffs? Peter - 2009-12-04 15:40:44
Tradelink Solutions, the Aggregator through whom we trade our ROCs, responded as follows to my recent question on where we stand on FiTs.

"Reference your questions, your ROC contract with us runs until end March 2012 in which case you will earn double ROCs each year up until that date.

After that we will offer you a FiT tariff which, as you probably know by now, will be worth the same as double ROCs, i.e. 9p kWh for generators who installed before 15th July this year.

There is still nothing set in stone regarding how FiTs will run and there won’t be until January. After this time we would be able to answer any queries with more clarity. Hope this will suffice for now."


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Peter

Re: Anybody know anything about the new Feed in tariffs? Peter - 2009-12-18 16:52:51
I have received a further update from Tradelink Solutions - which does not add much to the information which I posted previously.

Received from Tradelink 18/12/09

"Just to update you on the latest news in the micro generation market. The Government is progressing plans to introduce a Feed in Tariff (FiT) from 1st April 2010. We expect a final response from the Government in mid January following the conclusion of the consultation process. This will define the operation and finalised tariffs for the scheme (generation and export tariffs.) We will contact you individually in the New Year to advise how the new scheme will impact you and your site.

ROC claims for this RO year (09-10) will continue as normal and we will collect your meter reads in the usual way. Double ROCs this year so please get your meter reads to us in a timely manner, when requested. Thank you.

The retail arm of the group, LoCO2 Energy, has successfully been selling electricity since July 2009. Our new website is now live and we are listed on a number of the comparison websites. Take a look at Loco2Energy.com to see if we can beat your current tariffs and help you switch to a greener, cheaper supplier."

.

A very happy & peaceful Christmas to everyone.

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Peter

Re: Anybody know anything about the new Feed in tariffs? Ted Marynicz - 2009-12-19 15:04:41
Also Darling confirmed in his Pre-Budget Report a few weeks ago that income from FITs for a domestic installation would be exempt from income tax. So this is no change from the current position on ROCs and export payments.

ted

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